Friends First????

[Judy]

Hi! My name is Judy, I'm a Law of Attraction Love Coach. ..so, I like to talk about dating, love and romance. I'm always curious about how we as LBQ women go about life and love. I've run into a couple statements lately that have really gotten my attention ...I've chatted and ranted w/ friends, now I'm curious about what other's think.

If you're single and interested in dating and love, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase "friends first". The phrase sounds innocuous, sure. . . but it has aroused my suspicions.

Ok, I understand that it takes awhile to really know people well. I know it can be disappointing and heartbreaking when that fantastic "zing" feeling doesn't mean she's the woman of our dreams. I understand women's desire to slow things down to feel AND think. I get all of this. .. and more. .. I really do.

What I'm suspicious about though is why do we want to decide ahead of time the nature of a relationship with a woman before we've met and connected w/ her? I wonder if our pursuit of "safety" that we attribute to "friends first" actually takes us further away from developing the self trust that we seek. AND, of course I'm an official member of the "Keep the Lesbian Zing Alive" club. lol

I wonder if there are other ways that we can learn to trust ourselves even while feeling really really good.

As I'm out in the world dating, I've been experimenting w/ all of this. Here's what I'm coming up w/ so far. As I've become more and more relaxed about love and such, I've really been able to use my "gut" as a solid guide. (I know, w/out a shadow of a doubt that I'll have other great love/s in my life so I don't have to MAKE that happen) So, now I get to have prolonged "friendships" with women when my gut (and other body parts lol) give me a mixed signal. When my self trust is really strong and I can take more emotional risks sooner. . . I'm much more able to let relationships take their natural course without the need to orchestrate it all. .. (and, I'm finding that I'm actually having a load of fun)

anyways, what do you think about this whole friends first approach to love and romance?

[organic]

aren't all relationships a variation of a friendship?...I definitely agree that we can't predict the track our relationships will take but I also believe that for alot of women, friendships grossly out distance sexual relationships in terms of longevity and reliability alone, therefore, maybe offering friendship is a way of saying can we still have something going "if all else fails"...

[Judy]

yes, we seem to know how to navigate the realm of friendship well.. .. so maybe going into a potentially "risky" situation as dating/love can be via the comfort of what we know how to do well makes it all easier to be present to all the possibilities. . .and, really, I'm all for being present to all the possibilities-however each of us gets to that place. .. and I guess we each get to find our own way "home", yes?

[poet]

I think that friends first is very important, but what about chemistry, too. I feel that after one or two dates, if there is no chemistry, then it's probably not going to go anywhere anyway.

[Judy]

well that was my original personal reaction to the whole "friends first" point of view. . .are we sacrificing zing for safety? How do we learn to let ourselves enjoy feeling good and stay connected to our gut and let relationships develop as they may. . .

[Mickey]

I used to feel this way, but have found there are more paths than I realized. Sometimes the attraction comes much later after being friends for a long time. Personally, I must be friends first. My thinking is, if someone does not like me enough to be my friend, why go further? I don't like it though when someone says they are my friend, but they clearly have another agenda and are thinking more about what it is they want from me, than caring for me. Michelle

[Lise]

I agree with you Judy, but there's a balance. That zing is important to nurture (and enjoy!), but you also need to keep an eye out for red flags. I've found that some people are very good at creating zing where ever they go but are dangerous as partners. And I've found that with some, the zing was more subtle, but more powerful as we let it all unfold...

Great question... I'm going to have to think about that one some more.

[Judy]

well, have fun w/ it Lise! I've been tossing this around for a couple weeks now and I keep evolving w/ it. Everyone's posts have been helpful to me sorting this topic out and finding a relaxed place w/ it in my head AND heart.

and of course I run into lots of women's ads w/ "friends first" in the 1st line! talk about attraction! lol

Here's what I woke up w/ this morning. ..and I think I'm getting closer to solving this mystery for me. ...so, the Law of Attraction brings us what we create w/ our thoughts. . . and friends first, means different things to each of us and is completely benign. ...it's the thought underneath "friends first" that really drives what we are attracting.

For example, if I believe being friends first will protect me from being hurt, I'm coming to love and dating from a protected place and will be attracting experiences that affirm my belief that i need to protect myself. Or, I would be attracting something completely different if my core belief/thought was "I'm going to take my time getting to know women, so I can do some things different this time"

Ultimately, it's our energy underneath the phrase that does all the attracting-does our energy feel freeing or constraining? What if each of us developed our own self trust-even in the middle of fantastic zing- that guides us in the present moment. Imagine if we are able to make decisions about what's happening right now-not based on the past or the future.... I think this is my goal for me personally-and in my work w/ women.

So, "friend's first" could be a step in this direction, or a step away from it, yes?

And our whole relation to zing works the same way. . .I'll jump over a zillion red flags and who knows what else when my underneath belief is that "I gotta get this close to this great feeling, cause who knows when I'm gonna get it again".

it's all in the energy. ..how appropriate, eh?

[Mimi]

There are so many ways we can do all this for sure and personally I don't think there is a wrong way, as long as we are honest and respectful. My current approach is new for me in the big picture of my life (it is getting to be such a big picture ;-) I admit when I started I thought the "friends first" method would increase my odds of being safe, but have been surprised to learn that is not the case. So even knowing this, I still prefer to take the time to develop a friendship first, as since doing it, I have a number of times, learned that the friend and I were not at all suited to be more than friends. In my earlier style, I would have gone for the very sweet possibility of romance prior to finding out how ill suited the two of us were. I have noticed that not many other people want to go slow though, but that is just another message we are not a match. It helps me take this very slow path, knowing I have experienced great love several times and feeling deep gratitude for that gift.

[Amy]

I hear you saying that you wished lesbian culture was more willing to embrace passion, to celebrate romance, to have courtship and all the fab, lovely accouterments of 'the art of love' (and I sincerely do believe it is an art) that is so neglected here in the states and among lesbians in particular. I am very much in sympathy with this idea.

I've observed many women inhibiting their thoughts, feelings, and actions in such a way as to essentially eliminate the possibility of any passion - or even, any fun - in favor of being absolutely sure that there won't be any risk. Or embarrassment.

Needless to say I am not in favor of this. Of course it's wise to be prudent. However, absolute security is simply not possible when dealing with human beings or romantic love. These things are inherently unpredictable, especially when combined. That is why they also hold such transformative potential.

That said, I would definitely consider myself of the "friends first" camp. I have friends who spot a woman across the room, and immediately know whether they like her or not. My experience is considerably murkier. Romance is something that creeps up on me*, in general I tend to form my relationships slowly. I rarely know on first encounter whether a prospect is someone I'm going to "like that way" or not. I need to get to know someone before that happens, and getting to know somebody takes time.

Many women, I have found, cannot stand the suspense. They want to know as soon as possible whether I'm "interested", and all I can offer is that I'm not sure I'm not interested. It makes getting past the first or second date (when you have both practically only just met, and hence have - or must pretend to have - no expectations) rather difficult.


*and then has the job of dragging me kicking and screaming back to its lair. But I'll save that for another thread :)

[Judy]

ahhh, see why I love talking about love?

Amy, I was originally ruffled and pissy and afraid that everyone was de-sexing love. . . that's what originally got my ire/judgement up. . .but, as all of these posts indicate we're all sorting it out with a lot of heart and thoughtfulness. How could I stay pissy? So, I've relaxed my original fear/judgement.

here's my hope: for each of us, in each moment and each connection there's choices that feel liberating and there are those that feel "safe". I like the liberation option. Going slow, getting to know someone or jumping their bones on the spot can be an act of safety or liberation, yes? and each of us are the ones to know which decision feels freeing or constraining.

these days i view "zing" as a special soul to soul connection, something to pay attention to, but not to make any assumptions about-so far, most of my zings have become friends-ummmm, whether i started out that way or not. ..lol

I sure have enjoyed this exchange a lot, thx!

[Mickey]

Certain topics, such as this one, seem to be sure fire conversation starters among lesbians. One thing that has surprised me since deciding to go the friends first route, is the amount of anger it has brought out in some people. I had one women I barely knew, yell at me in a relaxed social gathering - saying no one would be willing to do that.
I also know women who have had little romantic/sexual experience and I tend to encourage them to be more experimental. Having been a wild child already, going slow now suits me.

[Judy]

I didn't realize what a hot topic this is until I started delving into it. . .admittedly, I had a strong initial reaction to the whole idea. ..

well big congrats on finding a sweet fit for yourself in your approach to love and dating. ... that does sound liberating. .. .

Seems like the mere act of being clear about what you want puts so much into motion-as if all the work gets done for you and you get to see what rises to the surface. . .the woman that yelled at you made it really obvious where she'd fit into your life, huh?